***UPDATE*** Dan has offered an extremely helpful post wherein he explains the background leading up to his questions. He also provides context and clarity for his recent tweets and offers an apology. Please read Dan’s post in full here – http://danhaseltine.com/blog/2014/4/25/reset-contexttangentapology.html and continue to pray for Dan as he wrestles with this topic.
Dear Mr. Haseltine,
First of all, I hope you will not mind if I refer to you in this letter as “Dan.” You may, of course, call me “Chris,” or virtually whatever else you would like to call me, for that matter.
Second, I need to let you know why I am writing this letter to you. Here’s why: on April 22 you wrote on your Twitter account, “Maybe the ‘knowledge of good and evil’ is a bad apple. Since it is a main cause for our hatred and toxicity towards others.”
Unless I am missing some context, or earlier discussion, you were, in your tweet, questioning our knowledge of good and evil upon the basis that our opinions about good and evil are a main cause of hatred toward others and what you call “toxicity.” I hope I have understood you correctly. I hope you will notice something about your statement. Your statement assumes that hatred toward others and toxicity is “bad” or “evil” or “wrong.” But that means you have knowledge of good and evil. The difficulty with your statement is that you want to reject knowledge of good and evil, while resting upon the necessary assumption of the knowledge of good and evil in order to suggest that it may be a “bad” thing. This is why I responded on the following day by tweeting, “Then why condemn hatred and toxicity? You’re refuting yourself. You are headed nowhere fast friend.” You see, Dan, if we somehow move “beyond” good and evil, then we have nothing left upon which to condemn things that really are wrong, like hatred toward others.
My tweet went on. I wrote, “Consider and repent.” And so, Dan, I called you to repentance. I did so out of love. You retweeted my plea to your 15.4k followers. Whether you did so because you were considering my statement, or whether you did so to mock me, I do not know. Generally any request for repentance on the part of a Christian today is frowned upon and mocked. After all, don’t calls for repentance typically come from crazy men on the street yammering and yelling about the end being near?
But I am not a crazy man on the street. (Or at least, I am not merely a crazy man on the street.) The Lord and the early church frequently called for repentance, because they happened to think repentance is a good thing, a necessary thing, and even a beautiful thing wrought by the Spirit of God in believers who realize that they truly are sinful and in need of the righteousness of Christ. I tend to agree with them. I repent of sins everyday. Whether or not you retweeted my comment to show your followers the supposed irrationality of your “opposition,” I do not know. What I do know is that my plea was not intended for your harm, but for your good. Perhaps you know this. You not only took time to respond to me, but did so civilly. For that I am thankful.
Please allow me a moment to summarize the exchange we had through Twitter in order to refresh our memories and for the sake of others who may be reading this post.
Dan: “um. I’m willing to ask questions. I’m also not afraid to be wrong. not sure what u are getting at? Repent for asking questions?”
Me: “Hatred of humans ‘gay’ or ‘straight’ is wrong. Much Christian commentary is too. But God’s Word is our only basis for love. The social questions need to be asked. My fear is that you have placed yourself ‘above’ the authority of God’s Word on this.”
Dan: “I am suspect of man’s interpretation and prioritizing of parts of God’s word. The living out of theological concepts is not easy.”
Me: “You should be, but text is determinative. And yes, sexuality is a tiny aspect of both our humanity and Scripture, but the things it states about both are good, beautiful, and true. We’re not defined as people by sexuality alone!”
Dan, question Christians and interpretations and society and the relationships between them, but never question the Word of God! When I write, “never question the Word of God,” I am not referring to some particular passage(s), or some particular interpretation of a passage. When I write about the Word of God, I am referring to the very nature of the Word of God. Do not question that. That is sin, it is defiance toward the God we love and serve, it is a rejection of the faith you have so boldly proclaimed for years, and it is something that will not help, but only harm you and others in the end. That is my main concern with all of the things you have written as of late. I am concerned about the direction you are headed in, and I am concerned about the negative impact it will have upon others.
When I look over your Twitter account, I see that you apparently took a trip to Australia over Easter. While returning to the states on April 21, you caught up on some movies. The most impressive of these movies was 12 Years a Slave. You tweeted, as far as I can tell, in response to the movie, “The treatment of people as less than human based on the color of skin is crazy… Or gender, or sexual orientation for that matter.” With this much I am, of course, in full agreement. The Word of God teaches that we are created in the image of God. Treating one another as less than human is sinful, regardless of what supposed basis a person offers for doing so. Skin color, gender, and sexual orientation alone do not define a person. More importantly, every person is created in the image of God, a central tenet of the Christian faith.
So far, so good, but then you go on to write, “Not meaning to stir things up BUT… Is there a non-speculative or non ‘slippery slope’ reason why gays shouldn’t marry? I don’t hear one.” Coming from you, this is a rather shocking question. After all, you are a representative of Christ, and a public and influential one at that. Should I not expect you to have at least some familiarity with the Word of God? I don’t mean to be rude. But have you not heard the Word of God on the matter of marriage?
For example, Jesus Christ, the one with whom you have identified for years in your music, answers, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” (Matthew 19:4-6) Jesus is quoting from Genesis 2.24.
The Apostle Paul quotes from the same passage and adds, “‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’ This mystery is profound, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church.” (Ephesians 5:31-32)
Surely you would concede that Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul ground marriage in creation and the gospel itself? Husband and wife are an illustration of Christ and the Church. Marriage is a shadow of the reality to come. The reality to come is Christ united with His bride the Church for eternity. This is one of the reasons why people will not be married in heaven, because marriage is merely a shadow of the greater reality realized in the consummate state. (Matthew 22.30)
Now, some people might want to respond, “That’s your interpretation.” No, I merely quoted the passages above. Moreover, texts are determinative. Words have actual meaning. So there is such a thing as a right and a wrong interpretation of a text. Otherwise, communication itself is impossible.
If the passages of Scripture about marriage quoted above were not enough, homosexuality is explicitly condemned in Scripture as sin as well. For example, Paul writes of how God gave people up “to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.” (Romans 1:26-27) Elsewhere, Paul writes, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
The Word of God is not speculative. The Word of God does not give way to a slippery slope. Homosexuality is, according to the Word of God, at least three things. Homosexuality is sin against God. Homosexuality is sin against nature. Homosexuality is sin against the divine institution of marriage. That should be sufficient reason for gays not to marry.
Unless something has changed, you attend Saint John’s Anglican Church in Franklin, Tennessee. Dan, have you considered what your church says about these issues?
Anglican theology is summarized in The 39 Articles of Religion. Your church subscribes to the 39 articles. They are posted right there on the church website under “What We Believe.” According to the 39 articles, “Holy Scripture contains all things necessary for salvation.” What is holy scripture? “By holy scripture is meant those canonical books of the Old and New Testaments whose authority has never been doubted within the church.” (Article 6) Your church accepts creeds “for they may be proved by most certain warrants of Holy Scripture.” These creeds “ought to be wholeheartedly accepted and believed. This is because their contents may be proved by definite statements of holy Scripture.” (Article 8) Additionally, “it is not lawful for the church to order anything contrary to God’s written Word.” The articles continue, “Nor may it expound one passage of Scripture so that it contradicts another passage. So, although the church is a witness and guardian to holy Scripture, it must not decree anything contrary to Scripture, nor is it to enforce belief in anything additional to Scripture as essential to salvation.” (Article 20) Finally, regarding councils, “things ordained by them as necessary to salvation have neither strength nor authority, unless it may be declared that they be taken out of holy Scripture.”
Your church has something of a high view of Scripture. According to the beliefs of your church, Scripture is necessary for salvation. Scripture is authoritative. Scripture is capable of providing proof. Scripture contains definite statements. Scripture should not be contradicted by the church. Scripture is not contradicted by itself. Scripture is sufficient. Dan, do you share these convictions? Do you agree with the stated beliefs of your church?
Saint John’s is currently in the process of joining the Anglican Church in North America, or ACNA. What does ACNA state about Scripture? As an essential element for membership in ACNA, “We confess the canonical books of the Old and New Testaments to be the inspired Word of God, containing all things necessary for salvation, and to be the final authority and unchangeable standard for Christian faith and life.”
ACNA also embraces The Jerusalem Declaration. The Jerusalem Declaration states, “We believe the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God written and to contain all things necessary for salvation. The Bible is to be translated, read, preached, taught and obeyed in its plain and canonical sense, respectful of the church’s historic and consensual reading.”
Finally, the declaration states, “We acknowledge God’s creation of humankind as male and female and the unchangeable standard of Christian marriage between one man and one woman as the proper place for sexual intimacy and the basis of the family. We repent of our failures to maintain this standard and call for a renewed commitment to lifelong fidelity in marriage and abstinence for those who are not married.”
Dan, have you sought to maintain the aforementioned view of Scripture and its standard for Christian marriage and sexual intimacy and the family? Or are you now seeking to abandon that standard through skeptical questioning of God’s Word? I should warn you that the latter is a swift path to destruction. I fear you are on it. Please reconsider your statements below.
“Okay! Back online… Interesting responses. re: gay marriage. Never liked the phrase: ‘Scripture clearly says…(blank) about…’”
Dan, I hope you can see that what you have written is not some innocent question. It’s a statement. And it’s not a good statement.
This is not a discussion about your likes and dislikes. We are not talking about flavors of ice cream. We are talking about the very nature of the Word of God, whether or not we can understand it, and whether or not sexual ethics actually matter. We are talking about people’s lives. Is what you like or don’t like really relevant? I don’t think so, and you should not either.
What matters – what really matters – is whether or not Scripture is clear. You claim – against the Word of God and your community of faith – that Scripture is not clear. (2 Timothy 3.16-17) And yet you expect to be able to communicate with others.
Can you see what you’ve done? For some reason, you believe yourself and others capable of clearer expression than God. We can speak clearly but God can’t? That’s not humility! If anything, that’s arrogance. We should be more sure of God, and less sure of ourselves. Do you believe Scripture clearly says anything about whether or not you can be saved?
“Because most people read and interpret scripture wrong. I don’t think scripture ‘clearly’ states much of anything regarding morality.”
It is inconsistent of you to state, on the one hand, that “most people read and interpret scripture wrong,” and on the other hand to claim, “I don’t think scripture ‘clearly’ states much of anything regarding morality.” If Scripture is not clear enough to interpret, then you have no place to tell other people that their interpretations are wrong. Your claim that Scripture does not clearly state “much of anything regarding morality” is admittedly…difficult for me to read and take seriously. Are you actually in God’s Word? Have you really been reading it? Can you, for example, keep a straight face and tell me that the following passage is not clear?
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21)
If you want to believe that a person’s interpretation of Scripture is wrong, then by all means, do so. I would be more than happy to discuss the interpretation of Scripture with you. But please don’t waste your time on the crazy idea that Scripture is unclear, or that there is no one right interpretation of a text.
“I don’t particularly care about Scriptures stance on what is ‘wrong.’ I care more about how it says we should treat people.”
Again, this discussion is not about your likes and dislikes, but your lack of care about what God says is wrong is extremely disturbing. If God is not the standard of what is right and wrong, then who is? Dan Haseltine? And why should anyone listen to him?
Your statement assumes that there is a way we should treat people. That means that there is also a way we should not treat people. That is, some ways we treat people are wrong. But you have already stated that you do not care about the stance of Scripture on what is wrong. You seem to be quite thoroughly confused.
“tweeting scripture verses to settle my questions of gay marriage isn’t helpful. Simple answers to complex questions= meh.”
So far I have replied to your statements, which are certainly not questions. You need to be honest with yourself Dan. You are not merely questioning. You have an ax to grind against those who believe, upon the basis of Scripture, that “homosexual marriage” is wrong.
On the one hand, you claim Scripture is not clear, and on the other, you call it “simple.” On the one hand, you claim you do not want simple answers to complex questions, and on the other, you ask your “complex” questions (with all due respect, they are not so complicated) on Twitter. C’mon Dan!
There’s no such thing as “homosexual marriage.” A principle purpose for marriage (read: not the only purpose) is the propagation of the human race through the bearing of children. That idea is found in Genesis. Can you really bring yourself to believe that a child who grows up in a “home” with two same sex parents is in an equal position to a child who grows up in a traditional, but much more importantly, biblical family? How do the imperatives of Ephesians 6 apply? Can you really imagine a scenario in which the church will not be forced, even against its conscience, consent, and will to perform marriage ceremonies for homosexual couples?
Perhaps I just employed what you mean by a slippery slope argument. But Dan, as soon as you crack open the biblical definition of marriage, you have no recourse to any principle which might prevent the aforementioned slippery slope. This is why polygamy and bestiality, as I am sure you have heard argued, will likely follow fast on the heels of “homosexual marriage.” The arguments that apply to the advocacy of “homosexual marriage” apply equally as well to polygamy, and in some cases, bestiality. That argument is not a fallacious form of the slippery slope. It is a valid argument, and in some instances a reduction to the absurd.
I would love to chat about the way Christians have treated not only the topic of homosexuality, but homosexuals. That’s a discussion that we, as Christians, need to have. I plan to write on it in the near future. You might find that we agree on much. But this post concerns what appears to me to be an open rejection of the Word of God itself. I am not referring to particular interpretations of particular passages of Scripture. I am referring to the dismissive comments you made regarding the very words of our God. Those words are perfect and very precious to me, for they contain the words of life, hope of eternal life in Jesus Christ who was crucified, buried, and raised again for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures.
Dan, in light of what I have written, will you please reconsider your recent comments, and repent for turning against God through rejection of His Word?